Suddenly he perceived the word for it: sunshine. He perceived that it came from the sky.
In the novel The Giver by Lois Lowery, we find that the Community sustains itself through Sameness; jobs are assigned, temperature is controlled, Stirrings are held in check, families are designated by committee, and life is scheduled like clockwork. In the space below, describe both the pros and cons of living in the Community, citing examples from the novel. Why would this world be considered "perfect"? Would life be perfect if there was no war or fear or pain? Would life be perfect without choices? Use the space below to justify your opinion.
DUE Tuesday, May 28, by 4:00 p.m.
I think that this world is semi perfect. As they said, there is no pain. So that means when they scrape their knees in the ground they won't feel acute pains in their knees. There are no headaches, muscle pains, and people could do surgery when the people are awake! That means you don't need to worry, so the world seems good every day. They also said there is no war. That means that there isn't any people that are enemies, no loss of men in fights, so politics would be straight forward. There would be no drafts, and no men would need to have a fear of war. People wouldn't have a fear of spiders, death, release, or any fear in the world. Phobias wouldn't exist, no suicide from fear, and the world would be settled and very calm. I think that the world would be easy to live in, so yes, it was sort of a "perfect" world. But it isn't fully perfect. You can't decide for yourself, so you wouldn't really get to know yourself enough to know what you really want. You turn an age at the same time, so there isn't any birthdays, no celebrations for a day when you truly entered the world. People decide things for you, you don't need to go through all the thinking to decide. No really experiences happiness, no true love for people, (stirrings come to mind) and nothing is all up to you to decide. Who wants to live in a world that doesn't have you thinking, wondering, pondering about something, like what you want for your birthday, a favorite color, or what you want to wear today. There isn't any color. People do the work for you. In the book, Jonas says that children turn an age at the same date, same time. It takes them to another level. When Asher cam to school late, he had to apologize, and people had to recite in unison "We accept you apology Asher." People make mistakes, and some quotes say that you learn from your mistakes. If people just apologize like nothing happened, what is there to learn? People only ride bicycles, and you have your comfort object taken away, so children and adults both don't have freedom. That is why I think it is a semi perfect society.
ReplyDeleteThe world and society described in The Giver, I think, is not perfect. Our world and their world are on two extremes, with both having bad things to them. In The Giver, there are no choices for you to make. You wear the same thing every day, go to the same school as everyone else, get your Assignment chosen for you by the Elders, live in Sameness with Climate Control and no color, turn a new age at the same time as everyone else, and have no choice for a mate or child/child name. Everything is done for you; you just go along with what happens. Even though there is no pain, no war, or burden of difficult choices, the prospect of not having an opinion in your own life makes it a bit harder. In our world, there is color, there are hills, there is snow, there are choices. You can choose whether you want to wear a blue or green T-shirt, and you have the choice of what you want to eat. You go to the school you choose (with restrictions), you choose where you want to live, you choose what you want to read, and you choose whatever else you want.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with our world is that we all too often make the wrong choices and must suffer for our mistakes from our wrong choices. If you chose the wrong thing, especially if it was important, what would have happened? What if we chose to do psychology in college, but realized halfway through that it wasn't what you wanted to do? What if you chose a job that wasn't what you really wanted to do just because of money? What if you decided to jump off a bridge because you wanted to and you died? The world in The Giver tries to go away with all of these choices. They don't want people to make the wrong choices, so they try to make the right choices for the people so that there will be no mistakes. There is a saying that people learn from their mistakes, however, so if we make a mistake, we could learn from it. The problem is, if the mistake is too big, there is no going back. Our world tries to give people the choice of making the mistake or not and trying to teach what to do or not to do. In The Giver, people are not given choice to prevent irreversible mistakes.
Our world and the world in The Giver are at two extremes with no middle that both have their own problems. A perfect world must not have problems - like in the tale where a king wishes for his daughter to be perfect and is left with a virtually non-existent baby because no matter what, nothing can be defined as "perfect." The meaning of "perfect" is having no blemishes or flaws, being flawless. In both our world and the world in The Giver, there are major problems that have solutions that only create more problems. In the end, the world of The Giver is not totally "perfect-" nothing is perfect.
Well the pro's would be no war,no rebellions, no wrong choices, and not many people get hurt often that's good. That world is 50% perfect but what about choices? YOU HAVE NONE! Now in our world we have war, rebellions, etc. but we have choices. We could choose to end the war, we could choose to compromise with the rebels but sometimes we don't. In Jonas's world they have no choices of what they want to be (Doctor,or Caretaker). Even what their allowed to do or eat. And I agree with Sarah and Helia with their end lines. 1.(Sarah)That is why I think it is a semi perfect society. 2.(Helia)the world of The Giver is not totally "perfect-" nothing is perfect. If you see this these lines are both stating that the world isn't perfect. I think that the society is semi-perfect.
ReplyDeleteNot Helia sorry, Lara
DeleteLiving in a world of sameness has its pros and cons. First of all, sameness has the advantages of not having to make choices for yourself and not having to worry about making the wrong ones. One of the perks of living in the society is that there is no crime or any kind of real misbehaving or serious lying of any kind. There is no war or violence in the society and Jonas has only recently discovered memories of good thing that he has never experienced before like going down a hill on a sled in the snow. Jonas has also discovered bad memories like war or people killing the elephant for its ivory. Another nice thing about sameness is the weather. Every day is like perfect weather that never changes. There are no hurricanes, earthquakes, avalanches, windstorms or anything destructive like that which could be deadly. In Jonas’s world, everything seems perfect, but that’s because their community has no concept of any kind of diversity. Jonas is now discovering how life was/is like elsewhere and all the things that his community is missing out on, like color. The reason that there are no choices in the sameness is because everything is decided for them. For example, their job is decided, their family unit is made up for them, and there are no choices about what to wear or which color is more beautiful. This isn’t good because their entire life is decided for them and they can’t have any diversity and are restricted from make choices for themselves which helps you become more independent. In my opinion, neither world is the perfect world because nothing in life is perfect. Although living in the community is easy because there is no stress, I feel like I would rather live in my world.
ReplyDeleteAs everybody has said before, the community is a mix of good and bad. Because there aren't any choices, you can't make any bad choices. Jonas said that he wanted to change his tunic color to blue or maybe red, however he thinks about it a moment and then realizes that if he can't choose, he won't make the wrong decision. This community may be considered "perfect", but there are bad things that make it a not so perfect community. Since there aren't any choices, you can't choose anything. You can't choose what you want to do, eat, wear, etcetera. Therefore, life is very straightforward and controlled by a one or a group of people. Those few people decide how your life is going to be and may not be what you are looking forward to. However, some time after the beginning of "sameness", those people may not know what life would've been like with choices. They may just think that this is how everybody's life is. They may think that life never had choices, the climate stayed the same, and everything had no color. They may think they have a perfect life because they know nothing else than what they are living. Without war, life would almost have no risks. There would be no risk of burglary, kidnapping, or break-ins. Without war, the community would be very peaceful and most probably wouldn't know what the word war means, beside The Giver and Receiver. When an Elder caused Jonas anxiety, she said, "I apologize for causing you anxiety." Jonas replied back saying that he accepted her apology. Before the committee of Elders came up with the apologies, no one would even say that. Maybe because this wouldn't cause any pain. If pain wasn't a factor, life would just be different. No one would know what pain really was after generation after generation. No one would understand what a war was or what fear was. Although the Elders thought this was a good idea for the community, I think that it was a bad choice and that the community is not "perfect".
ReplyDeleteI do not think the community is perfect, and i do not think it is bad. I think it just is. Nothing in the community is truly bad or good. The sameness makes everything simple and straightforward, almost 2 dimensional. One part of the book when Jonas is talking to the giver about the sameness, and not being able to choose anything themselves, Jonas wants to be able to choose things for himself, but then realize the problems of making the wrong decision. Another topic brought up about sameness is the climate and color control. If everything wasn't the same color, there might be discrimination, or different feelings brought up, same with music, but without it, everything is plain and not bad, but far from perfect. Another point to bring up is that in the community, there are no emotions. So although there is no pain and fear, things that cause war, there is also zero love and passion, not even true curiosity, everyone just thinks that is how life is. So basically, the community isn't perfect because no one is happy in it. Although the world is a sort of Utopia, in reality, it was very dystopian. The leaders of it didn't ever even know what was going on, it was just set up for them so nothing ever changed. Another very distopian thing about the community is that in order to maintain the community's orderly fashion, one person, the receiver and or giver, has to take all the emotions for the entire community just to maintain the blankness of all others in the community. In kind of reminds me the story The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas slightly because of the one person in the community suffering for the well being of everyone else, and no one in the rest of the community understands true sadness.
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of the book Ms. Lohman read to our class in third grade called something like "How to be Perfect" and it described the life of a boy who was really silly and wanted to be perfect. He read the book by this crazy author who wrote steps to become perfect. So he had to wear broccoli around his neck for a day and do all this silly stuff. The last thing he has to do is drink tea and stare at a blank wall. As he reads the last pages of the book the crazy author writes that to be perfect you would do nothing, literally nothing. So the boy realizes that nobody is perfect and blah blah bleh, embrace your flaws yadda yadda. But my point is perfectness is the same and controlled in that story and it is organized and boring.It is similarly depicted in The Giver, perfectness is a rare quality that The Community portrays as sameness and exactness. What i have learned though is sameness may be similar to "perfectness" but it is extremely boring.True though, life may be more enjoyable without strife, warfare, or toil, but people need to feel pain so they know what is damaging them or hurting them physically and emotionally. I'm sure most people in The Community feel that it is a utopian society because they do not know. They do not know about color, or choices, or pain, or even deep thought. I feel that it is kind of like bad vocab studying (I know, weird comparison), I think instead of learning what the word means, they memorize the definition in order word for word, and never really understand meaning. If you crescendo my simile I think you could understand what I mean. If I were Jonas, and I was introduced to all those new ideas, I would feel that it was a distopian society and unfair because I was given a choice and nobody else was. Also I think if The Community changed to a society like us, the sudden change would create a horrible war and widespread unhappiness because nobody in The Community was brought up that way. You could be like our society, or like theirs, but you could not be in between. It's like if you have two hills, one with a varity of growing flowers, and one with the same size, color, and shape flower, and in the middle there is an army of bears. You could be on eaither hill, but you would not want to be in between. I kind of feel like this book is a hunger games/communist/match trilogy/futuristic kind of society. I'm kind of divided as to which society is better. As i said before though, you can't do a little bit of both. It's like you have chocolate and sour candy, they are both good, but they are horrible together. But overall, here's a recap. I think no choices does not make something perfect, but i do think peace is good and sameness has its pros and cons. (But mostly cons) OK then, well, thanks for listening to my opinion!
ReplyDeleteWell it would be pretty nice to not have to deal with hunger, pain or war so those are some pros but life without pain but still nice. Some problems I would have are the fact that You can't see in color and all the pretty colors in the world. My favorite color could not be red. The fact that they can't have snow or sunshine or rain or gloomy days is weird I love sun and snow so that would stink. If I was not given the chance to choose my job I might never be happy with my life and that you get certain things at a certain age like a bike or a comfort object. My sister still sleeps with a teddy bear and she is 18 years old so there's a problem.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it would be perfect without choices, because once Jonas starts seeing colors, he wants to make choices. I don't exactly think that life is perfect now, because many people make bad choices and can hurt themselves and/or others too. For the Community, there are no wrong choices and the Elders really try hard to keep everyone safe and happy. In that way, it is perfect, however, everything is so perfect and everything looks almost the same. They are saved from hunger, war, and bad choices, but they don't get to see the wonder of colors and can't choose what to wear as Jonas wants to do. Life would not be perfect without choices, it could be safer, but without choices, you can't really be yourself, you have to be everybody in a way. Without pain or war, you don't actually live life, because you don't experience anything that shapes you and makes you stronger. However, it is considered "perfect" because with Sameness, there isn't any discrimination and segregation because everyone looks alike. Also, that's just how their life is, so their way is "perfect" to them. Say we were to change our life into theirs, and vice versa, we wouldn't like their life, and they wouldn't like our life, because we aren't used to other lifestyles. It is the Elders' choices to keep their world the same, and that is why they like it, and consider it perfect. I am sure if we did that, we would consider our life perfect. Choices aren't bad, and if once in a while, Jonas was allowed to make a choice for himself, he might appreciate that more than others, because he can actually see colors.
ReplyDeleteI think it would be good to have no pain or war hunger and things like that, but climate control? I think it would be fun to have snow and rain once in awhile. Also making your own decisions would be great but I understand why they are scared. Sometimes you we need hunger and pain or else your just in a boring world and you don't get to experience anything. Getting things at certain ages might also be weird. I got a bike when I was six. Also since there is no pain there are no sports. It would be awful to have no basketball or soccer. The worst is not seeing colors. You would not have a favorite color or where different color shirts as Jonas wanted.
ReplyDeleteThe world that Jonas lives in is semi perfect. No war to destroy the world is good, pain is forever gone, and hunger destroyed are all things that make the community great, but having no climate or slopes would be boring. There is no snow for kids to play in, and no hills to ride down. The community is very bleak. Being assigned jobs is ok, because then at least you wouldn't pick the wrong job, but I think that the choices in life matter. So what if you picked the wrong thing, at least you get to decide what you can do in life. Picking your own family instead of being "assigned" one, and having feelings are both things I would want to have and be able to do. All in all I think the community is alright, not great but not horrible.
ReplyDeleteThere are both pros and cons to living in the Community with Sameness, but a couple of pros would be that there would be no war, fear, or pain. Life with no war, fear, or pain would be perfect because you wouldn’t have to worry about a war breaking out, or that somebody might come to take you away, or having your heart broken because you are different and people are making fun of you. You would never have to worry about making the wrong choices because you don’t have to make any. For example, if jobs weren’t assigned and you chose a job (at the age of 12) that you thought was right for you, and a couple years later you wanted to change your job than you couldn’t. Another pro to living in the Community would be that nobody will judge you for what you are wearing. Living in the Community everybody is wearing the same type of tunic, therefore judging somebody about theirs would mean you are making fun of your own too. This world could be considered “perfect” because there is no fear or pain. Just because this Community is supposedly called “perfect” it doesn’t mean that it actually is. The committee of Elders made this Community have Sameness thinking that it would benefit everyone, but it doesn’t. One example is that they can’t see any colors. Without any color, nobody can show their uniqueness or can see the true beauty in nature. Since Jonas is receiving the memories from the Giver, he is getting the memory of colors. All the colors he is seeing amaze him because he has never seen color before. It also makes him mad because nobody else can see the different colors. Another reason why the Community isn’t all “perfect” is because they can’t chose who they get to spend the rest of their lives with. When they apply to get a spouse, they don’t know who they are going to get and it might be a person who they have never met. Also, since there is Sameness there is climate control and not knowing what snow or rain is and only knowing the same temperature for your whole life is weird. Without having to make a choice in your whole lifetime like the people in the Community, you wouldn’t be able to make mistakes. There are pros and cons with not making mistakes. If you do not make any mistakes, then you think everything you are doing is fine. On the other hand, if you make mistakes you can learn from them. I know I already mentioned the Community’s life without choices, but it would only be semi perfect because nobody would make mistakes, but at the same time nobody could show their originality and uniqueness. That wraps up my opinion for this blog response and I can’t wait to finish the book!
ReplyDeleteSome people might think that having no choices, or no war in your life makes if perfect... but personally, I think it is an awful life. I know that the people in this community don't want to make the wrong choices, so that's probably why they aren't allowed to. The community definitely isn't "perfect." I guess some people wish that there was no pain because yes, it hurts. But still, you should be able to feel the things that humans in other worlds do, or like The Reciever. For example, when Jonas got the memory of getting a sunburn, it didn't feel good, but at least he got to have the experience of getting sunburned unlike the other people in the community. But Jonas also got to see color, which I think everyone should be able to see because some colors are just so beaufitul. But when Jonas got to feel the emotional pain of seeing the elephant die, or when he got to be in war, those are probably feelings that the community wouldn't want to feel. Like I said before, picking the wrong choice would be bad, so that is a con. But if you had the freedom to picking the right choice by yourself, then that is a pro. Another pro would be to see colors, or to have memories. But if you had bad memories, that is a con. I think living in this community would sometimes seem perfect but other times, it would feel like torture.
ReplyDeleteWhen some people say the word "perfect" they mean "Wow, remember that day on the beach when I finally learned how to surf, you collected as many seashells as you wanted, and we ate s'mores under the stars? Now that was a perfect day." There are a lot of variables involved in something being this kind of "perfect". Rarely people say "Remember that time I bought that adorable shirt from a rack of a hundred identical adorable shirts and you learned how to water-ski because that was the only class offered that day? That was a perfect day." To many people, perfection doesn't mean sameness, it means rarity, absolute best, the pinnacle of awesomeness, and choice. In theory, there should be no Giver & his apprentice so there'd be no one to question the perfection of the Community.
ReplyDeleteP.S. In my opinion, perfection would be a world where there was no obsession with power.
Living in a world like Jonas’ can have its pros and cons. Having no decisions, real love, or color are all bad to me because I think that there would be no point in life if you don’t get to lead your own journey through your years of living. But also in Jonas’ world, there are some benefits in living there. For example, no war, discrimination, pain or making wrong choices do really help in making life easier, but if you don’t feel the pain or have ups and downs, why be living? If you can’t make your own choices, be independent, and believe in what you think is right, you can’t really experience what’s in store for you and also to learn from the past. I really think that Jonas’ Utopian society is really not a Utopian society because I think that there is no such thing as perfectness or being perfect. The world that Jonas is in is kind of sad because you can’t have feelings. For example, if someone in the society does something wrong, it’s not a big deal, they just apologize and the other person or people just forgive them back. This just blocks you from feeling anger, sadness, or jealously. I just think that without knowing what actuality was like, your whole entire life of living was just a big lie.
ReplyDeleteI think that there are both good and bad things about living in a society that is under rule and controlled by the government. Some of the pros would be that there will most likely not be any rebellions. I think that the society makes all the choices for the people is because that if the people chose for themselves then they might make a wrong choice. There are many cons of living in a society that is under rule. It sucks having someone choose your job for you, because what happens if you are chosen as pilot and you have a fear of heights or planes. everything in the society is bland and has no colour. it is a lot more fun to get up in the morning and choose what you want to wear to school. The society makes everybody wear the same clothes because they don't want them to have trouble with what clothing they wear.
ReplyDeleteNothing is perfect. There are pros and cons of living the community. The pros are always led to cons. For example, In Jonas's world, they have no choices, which makes life just a hair easier and there would never be any hurt feelings. But on the other hand you would be, sometimes, with people you don't want to be with for various reasons. If I was Jonas, the receiver of memories who can see all the things that existed before, I would be pretty angry to know that there is no color, that you can't have choices, etc. The community isn't really a Utopian society, since NOTHING is perfect. In my opinion (also some other's too), the world is bitter sweet.
ReplyDeleteLiving in a world like Jonas's would be considered good and bad. The cons would be that, you could never see color , everything was always on a gray scale. A benefit of living there would be, there would be no war, discrimination, no one will ever be starving, people really can't make wrong choices so their world is always happy. Stirrings are held in check so no one can have a true love. In Jonas's world you can't be independent and make your own choices which is not a good thing. I agree with Kanako that if someone in the society makes a mistake, the other person would just forgive them so there would be no anger or jealousy. Lastly, in Jonas's community, you get special things at certain ages like a bike or a comfort object which is kind of weird. So for example, I got a bike when I was six. But in this world, you get a bike at a certain age. Overall, Jonas's world is good and bad.
ReplyDeleteThere advantages and disadvantages to having sameness. One advantage, as Jonas states to the Giver, is that if there are choices, people could make the wrong choice, leading to pain. Also, if you let people just have smallest amount of choice, as simple as choosing a red or blue tonic, they might want more choice, like job or spouse. And if everybody is the same and doesn't make choices, there can't be jealousy. The disadvantages, there really is no meaning to life if everything is chosen for you. Your only purpose is to keep the community going, keeping everybody the same. Another disadvantage is always feeling the same, every day you feel the perfect weather and see no vibrant colors, no cold from rain or heat from sun, as Jonas experience when his first feeling of pain was transferred, a sun burn. No way to see the difference in people, such as shades of skin and hair color, and since everybody is brought up the same way, same school, same rules, they act similar. And life would not be perfect without conflict. In he community, and emotion is simply put away by taking a pill everyday, so there is no real emotion that can lead to fighting. But people's thoughts shouldn't be stolen from them. So in my opinion, this is not a nearly a perfect way of life.
ReplyDeleteThis society is not completely perfect at all. The pros to living in this society is that there is no pain, fear, or war. Everything is kept calm and peaceful. You don't have to always be kept alert and ready because you fear something or someone is going to hurt you any time. In this society, there is even a rule about not being rude. That way, everyone in the society is technically all good friends. There are really no enemies or bullies roaming around. You also could never really make the wrong choice. The cons to living in this society is that you don't have too much freedom. All though it's nice to know that no wrong choices will be made, its terrible to get assigned your job, spouse, and children. Your job may fit you, but what if its not what you've always wanted to do? You can't even really show who you are by choosing what you want to wear everyday. In my opinion, life can kind of become boring with no fear to get over and no bravery to be shown. So I really would not want to live in a society like this one even if there are many good things about it.
ReplyDeleteI think there are many pros and cons to having sameness. There's no fear, war, or jealousy. Although, there are no choices, this means there's no wrong ones, but who doesn't want a wife or husband that they actually love? and there is no weather, colors, or pain. Without pain, you aren't as strong. For example, when Jonas received the memory of the sunburn, it hurt him a lot. That is nothing compared to breaking a bone. There is not much freedom in the Community. The citizens don't even know what animals are. I feel like it's really unfair and awkward to have to even apologize for accidentally see someone naked. Obviously, there isn't even a freedom of speech. If you report a problem to the elders, they will just study it for years, and then forget about it. The Community is definitely not perfect in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteHELIA F.
ReplyDeleteI feel that there are good points and bad points to this utopian community. Pros would definitely be that there is no argument and disagreement around the community because everything is the same. There are also no things like bullying because you can't bully someone if there just like you. But there are also cons to this. For example in this community you don't have a chance to show your voice. You can't be yourself you have to be like everybody else. It would probably be considered perfect because there are no mistakes or errors in this community. If there were no fear or pain or war, there would be peace and happiness and balance. But the thing is if there was no pain or fear or war there would be no lessons learned. Life wouldn't be perfect without choices. It would be hard to control your feelings. There would be so much that you wanted to say and you can't.
Thank you, students! Fantastic responses... detailed, thoughtful, thorough. Well done!
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